Jochen Rindt Trophy

Hockenheim, 17 Jun 1973

All cars are 2-litre F2 unless noted.

Notes on the cars:

1. Surtees TS15 [03] (Jochen Mass): New for team leader Mike Hailwood for the opening race of the 1973 F2 season. Driven by Derek Bell at Hockenheim as Hailwood was racing a F1 car at the International Trophy. Then inherited by Jochen Mass when Hailwood had a new TS15/009 at Thruxton in April, but Mass only used chassis 03 in the heat, moving into Hailwood's newer car for the final. Mass drove chassis 03 again at Nürburgring, at Kinnekullering in May, where he won, at Nivelles-Baulers, at Hockenheim, where he won again, and at Rouen-les-Essarts. However, the following weekend at Monza he crashed this car heavily into the barrier, wrecking one side. The car was not seen again.
2. March 732 [8] (Colin Vandervell): For Colin Vandervell, run by Brian Lewis Racing. Vandervell became disillusioned with F2 and the car was rented out to other drivers, notably Motoharu Kurosawa. Unknown after 1973 but there are no unexplained 732s in Japan to suggest Kurosawa took it home. This could be the unexplained 732 of Jean Lapierre in French hillclimbs in 1974.
3. March 732 [10?] (Jacques Coulon): STP March Engineering works car for Jean-Pierre Beltoise at Hockenheim and later by Jean-Pierre Jarier at two races. Probably the car used by Jacques Coulon at Hockenheim, by Beltoise at Albi and by Stuck at Estoril. To Brian Lewis Racing for 1974 and updated to 742 spec for Andy Sutcliffe as '742-10b', then run for hire drivers later in the year. To Roger Heavens for Antônio Castro Prado for F2 in the latter part of 1975, then sold via Hervé Le Guellec to Jimmy Mieusset as a backup car for French hillclimbing at the start of the 1976 season. Also used by Roger Rivoire in May 1976, and then sold to Jean-Pierre Simon in June 1976. Retained by Simon for 1977, still with its BMW engine. Unknown in 1978, when it could have been the 742-BMW of, for example, Robert Despratx in southwest France. Then to Maurice Crozier and raced in 1979 and 1980 with a 1600cc Ford engine. Advertised by Crozier with or without its 1600cc Cosworth FVA engine in November 1980. It was next seen with Michel Goutarel, who raced it in courses de côte in the Lyon area in 1981 and 1982. Goutarel appears to have kept this car for some time, as he is noted as the winner of the Course de côte régionale de Vals-prés-Le-Puy in September 1986.
4. March 732 [4] (Vittorio Brambilla): Beta Racing Team for Vittorio Brambilla 1973 and used as his main car all season. Crashed at Monza in June and rebuilt on a new monocoque. Crashed again in practice at Vallalunga in October and may have been written off, leaving Vittorio to drive brother Tino's 732/5 at the last race. This car appears to have been repaired on a new monocoque and retained by the team as a spare in 1974. It would be the car raced by Diulio Truffo at Mugello and Alberto Colombo at Vallelunga. It remained with the Brambillas until 1977, when it passed to sponsor Daniele Ciceri of Beta Tools, and was placed on display at the Beta factory. It 1988, it passed to the Autorevival Italia Association, and was displayed in the Museum Autodromo Monza until 2000, when it was acquired by Guido Romani (Milan). It was sold to Hall and Hall (Bourne, Lincolnshire) in 2019 when it was found to be in remarkably original condition. Sold to Graham Adelman in 2019.
5. Motul M1 [206] (Henri Pescarolo): The car raced by Henri Pescarolo for Motul Rondel in F2 in 1973, and believed to be the same car all season. Also raced by Tim Schenken at Pau, Kinnekulle Ring and Rouen. This car was fitted with a Schnitzer BMW engine for the last two races of the season. Then believed to have been sold via Fred Opert to the US so this may be the car wearing Pescarolo bodywork that was sold to Alistair Justason (Toronto, Ontario) in 1974, then Bob Beyea in 1975. Chassis 206 was later bought from Opert by Randy Zimmer as a source of spares for his Can Am car. Still with Zimmer in 2010, but by July 2011, it had been sold to Richard Parkin and Martin Walker in the UK. From them, it later went to Martin Donn, still unrestored, and then to Steve Worrad (Whitchurch, Shropshire) in January 2019.
6. GRD 273 [054-F2] (Hiroshi Kazato): New to Hiroshi Kazato, and run for him in 1973 F2 events by GRS International. Kazato used Racing Services alloy Ford BDA engines at first, then moved to Cosworth BDG, and then had a new car built to take a Schnitzer BMW, retained chassis 054 as a spare. Chassis 054 is thought to have been sold to Chris Oates for 1974, and the "ex-Kazato" car that he ran in Formula Atlantic for Richard Morgan and then Frank Sytner, but this may have been an older car. Chassis 054 reappeared in 1976 when it was run in libre racing by Alan Clennell, described as a B73 and using Swindon BDA engines. Retained by Clennell for sprints and hillclimbs in 1977 and 1978. Advertised by Clennell (Southam) as an ex-works 273 in November 1978. Subsequent history unknown.
7. Surtees TS10 [07] (Silvio Moser): A new car built up for the Matchbox Team Surtees F2 team in mid-1972, and first raced by Dieter Quester at the Österreichring in early July. Raced later in the season by Carlos Pace, John Surtees and Mike Hailwood. It is almost certainly the car raced by Lian Duarté in the F2 Torneio do Brasil. Sold to Silvio Moser for 1973, repainted in Marlboro livery, and used regularly through the 1973 F2 season. Raced by Alberto Colombo at Vallelunga at the end of the season. According to Beat Schenker, Moser's mechanic, the Surtees was sold to a Mr Herber, from Ticino, who planned to use it in the Swiss national championship. Beat recalls that he crashed on his second or third outing, and believes the car may have been a total loss.
8. Chevron B25 [25-73-04] (David Morgan): Displayed at the Racing Car Show in January 1973, then sold to Ed Reeves for Dave Morgan to race in Formula 2. Reeves withdrew his team in July 1973, and gifted the Chevron to Morgan, but without funding Morgan could not continue. Morgan retained the car for 1974 and raced it in the British Formula Atlantic series, run for him by Harry Stiller. Sold to property developer David Peck at the end of the year for his daughter Lorraine Peck, a remarkably talented kart racer who had finished second in the Junior World Championships in 1974, but she was tragically killed in the World Junior Championships at Fulda in July 1975, while still only 16. The Chevron was sold to former clubmans driver Derek Shortall (Malahide, County Dublin, Ireland) and raced in the 1976 Irish Formula Atlantic series, backed by Vista Blinds, his long time sponsors. Reported to have gone to Dermot O'Leary and Eddie Regan for 1977, but next seen when raced by David Lambe (Dublin) in 1978 and 1979. Taken in part-exchange by Belfast team owner Gerry Kinnane for his Lola T460 at the end of 1979, and sold on to Alwyn Bingham (Belfast, Northern Ireland), the reigning Irish Hill Climb Champion. Raced in hillclimbs in 1980 and 1981. Alwyn recalls that he sold it "down south", but does not recall the next owner's name. Subsequent history unknown.
9. Surtees TS15 [07] (Bob Salisbury): New to Bob Gerard Racing and raced by Bob Salisbury in F2 and in Formula Atlantic. Subsequent history unknown, but according to researcher David McKinney, chassis 06 and chassis 07 were with Tony Collinson in 1990, chassis 07 having a twin cam motor at that point. Chassis 07 passed to Gerry Wainwright (Burton, Staffordshire) who raced it from 1995 to 1997, then to John Elliott in 1999. Raced by Elliott in the HSCC Derek Bell Trophy in 2001, and in historic F2 in 2003. Mark Griffiths raced this car in 2006. It was bought from Legends Automotive in 2010 by Crispian Besley, who raced it in 2011 and 2012. Sold to Jeremy Deeley (Frinton on Sea, Essex) in 2020.
10. March 732 [11] (Bill Gubelmann): New to Bill Gubelmann (Oyster Bay, NY) for F2 in 1973 and retained for 1974 when run by Brian Lewis Racing. Clay Regazzoni was due to drive the car at Vallelunga in October, but did not arrive, so a deal was done for Gabrielle Serblin to drive after he damaged his usual 742 in practice. Not seen in 1975, when the intention had been to sell the car to Stuart Chubb Racing, but Gubelmann returned for the 1976 Shellsport G8 series with the car updated to 752 specification, fitted with a Hart BDG, and run by Bob Gerard. Gubelmann also appeared in a handful of F2 races in 1976, but after failing to qualify for the Rouen race, quickly moved to Mallory Park in time to qualify for the Shellsport race. He was involved in a nasty accident in the race when he clipped the rear of Mike Wilds' F1 Shadow, rode up over its back wheel and hit the bank at the Esses very hard. He was taken to hospital with head injuries. The March is believed to have been destroyed.
11. March 712M [18] (Ernesto "Tino" Brambilla): New to Ernesto "Tino" Brambilla, and run for him by Scuderia Ala d'Oro in F2 in 1971. Retained for 1972, when it was first fitted with a Ferrari Dino V6 engine, and later with 1800cc Novamotor BDAs. Retained again for 1973, when it was in Beta livery and fitted with a Schnitzer BMW engine. Subsequent history unknown, but Fabio Montani told Philippe Demeyer that he believes it went to a "Diepoltz" in Switzerland.
12. Brabham BT38 [21] (Alfred "Freddy" Amweg): New for Silvio Moser (Lugano, Switzerland) at the Eifelrennen at the Nürburgring on 30 April 1972, where it was run for him by Scuderia Del Lario, and sponsored by Marlboro. Raced by Moser in most F2 races in 1972. To Freddy Amweg (Ammerswil, Switzerland) for 1973, and used in a few F2 races, but more often in the Swiss national championship. To Jorg Siegrist (Lucerne, Switzerland) for 1974, when it was fitted with a Cosworth BDG, and used in Swiss and German events, as well as a few F2 races. Subsequent history unknown, but in July 2012, this car was advertised by Lutziger Classic Cars (Rudolfstetten, Switzerland). It had been restored by Peter Denty, was fitted with a Cosworth BDG engine, and was in Amweg's livery.
13. GRD 273 [076-F2] (Tetsu Ikuzawa): Raced by Tetsu Ikuzawa in F2 in 1973, entered by GRD's racing offshoot GRS International. When Ikuzawa had returned to Japan in August, the car was used briefly in practice by Hiroshi Kazato in practice at Enna and was then taken over by GRS teammate Brendan McInerney whose own car had been wrecked at Karlskoga. Revamped in DART colours for Noritake Takahara to race at Estoril at the end of the season. Subsequent history unknown.
14. March 732 [13] (Roland Salomon): To Roland Salomon for Swiss championship events from June onwards, replacing a GRD 272, and also some F2 races that season. After winning the Swiss title, the car was damaged in a hillclimb near the end of the season and rebuilt on a new tub in time for the Estoril F2 race. Salomon continued with the car in 1974 but focused on national events. Sold to Beat Blatter 1975 for Swiss Championship events. Then sold to Alain Jaccard (Thônex, Canton of Geneva, Switzerland) in 1976, when the car moved to eastern France, fitted with a 1600cc Ford engine, and used in the 1600cc class of French course de côte. To Michel Salvi (Malbuisson, Franche-Comté, France) for the 1978 hillclimb season, agai with the 1600cc Ford. Retained by Salvi for 1979, then sold to Jacques Bonnot (Chalon-sur-Saône, Franche-Comté) as a rolling chassis with Hewland FG400 gearbox but not raced by him. Later sold to Sébastien Brisard and being prepared in 2023 for historic racing.
15. Motul M1 [204] (Tom Pryce): The car used by Jody Scheckter as part of the Motul Rondel team at the first two F2 races of 1973. In June, Titan Properties, the company owned by Chris Meek and Malcolm Wayne, sponsored this car for Tom Pryce to make his F2 debut for Motul Rondel. He drove it until Rouen in June, where he retired with a blown engine, but then had a new car, chassis 208, when he returned to F2 in August. Chassis 204 was sold at the end of the season via Fred Opert to Chris O'Brien (Ottawa, Ontario /Halifax, Nova Scotia) and raced in the Players Canadian Formula Atlantic series in 1974. O'Brien crashed the car at Mosport in July 1974 and it was rebuilt on a new monocoque in time for Sanair two weeks later. It was advertised in December 1974 as "ex-Scheckter" with spares that included a monocoque, presumably the one damaged at Mosport. O'Brien recalls that he sold the car back to Opert. Unknown in 1975, but to Dean Lundgreen (Milwaukee, WI) for 1976, when he scored eight points in Central Division Formula B, and 1977, when he scored 18 points and qualified for the Runoffs. To Ron Drew (Milwaukee, WI) and fitted with a Cosworth BDJ for Formula C in 1978 and 1979, then to Tim Joyce April 1980, then to Greg Dauterman (Fond du Lac, WI) February 1981 and used in Formula Continental up to June 1985. Dauterman sold it Bill Schley at Schley Motor Cars in Waukesha, Wisconsin, and from him it was sold to Jurg Dubler in Switzerland in January 1990. Then sold to Jody Scheckter in June 1999, and picked up by Kerry Adams who then looked after his cars. It has since been immaculately restored to original condition, and is in the care of Sam Kendle of Kendle Adams Motorsport Limited at Scheckter's Laverstoke Park Farm in Hampshire.
16. Brabham BT40 [36] (Andrea de Adamich): Run by Motor Racing Developments as a second works car in Formula 2 in 1973, driven at first by Andrea de Adamich, and entered by FINA Racing Team. Raced later in the season by Gabriele Serblin and Rolf Stommelen. Sold to Tom O'Leary (Dalkey, County Dublin, Ireland) for Irish Formula Atlantic in 1974. Retained by O'Leary for 1975, 1976 and 1977, then acquired by Gerry Kinnane in part-exchange for a Chevron B29 sold to O'Leary, and entered for John Ledlie, Ivor Greenwood and Derek Shortall in 1978. Next seen with Chris Charlett in Trinidad in 1981 and 1982. Returned to the UK by 2001, when it was restored by Cooper Motorsports and raced by Steve Parrott in the HSCC Derek Bell Trophy. Sold to Tim Kuchel (Australia) in 2006 and raced in Australian historic racing. Kuchel died in December 2019, and the car was sold by his family to Wayne Groeger (Fairhaven, Victoria, Australia) in December 2020.
17. March 732 [1] (Hans-Joachim Stuck): STP March Engineering works car for Jean-Pierre Beltoise at the first race, then for Hans-Joachim Stuck at two races and then for Jean-Pierre Jarier at two races. A new car, 732-10, was later built for Beltoise so this 732-1 became what March called the "training car" and was used by Stuck later in the year and was then the third spare car remaining in March's transporter at several races. Probably for Mário Cabral at Estoril. Then unknown until June 1975 when acquired by John Calvert for libre racing in 742 spec. To Geoff Friswell mid-1976, rebuilt for him by Brian Lisles and fitted with a Hart 420R engine, but wrecked in practice at Oulton Park in September. Rebuilt on a 742 chassis and raced in two late-season events. Later to Jonathan Buncombe who fitted an FVC engine for libre races. Sold to Roger Orgee and further modified to 772P specification for Formula Atlantic in 1979. Sold after the 1979 season to Harry Vickers' Cowgate Motors in Newcastle and was used in the construction of their Group 5 Lotus Elan HV/80/S2 for Nicky Ellis. This car used a standard Elan backbone chassis with the suspension from the ex-Orgee 732/742/772 and a Swindon BDX. All that would have been left of Orgee's car would have been the monocoque, and as this was a replacement 742 tub, the March 732 had effectively ceased to exist.
18. March 712M [16] (Peter Korda): New to Fredy Link, and run for him by Jolly Club in F2 in 1971. Also used in Formula 3 with a Renault Albert engine. To Peter Korda for 1972, and used in hillclimbs, German and Swiss national events, and occasional F2 races from 1972 to 1974. It appears that the car remained in Switzerland after Korda last used it. It went to Edmond Veigel (Lausanne, Switzerland) who dismantled the car and never used it. It was later acquired by Hans-Markus Huber (Berne, Switzerland), restored by him between 1989 and 1991, fitted with a BDA engine, and raced it in the European Historic Formula 2 Club series. Subsequent history unknown.
19. GRD 273 [071-F2] (Jo Vonlanthen): Jon Vonlanthen (Frauenfeld, Switzerland) moved up to F2 in 1973 with a new GRD 273. He raced the car in the European series and in the Swiss Championship, using Alan Smith and David Wood BDA engines. For 1974, the car was sold to Jurg Dubler (Oberhasli, Switzerland) but other commitments meant that he did not race it until October. He continued with the car in French hillclimbs in 1975, appearing at Saint-Pierre in April, Turckheim-Trois-Epis in June and Poissons in August. Otto Stuppacher also drove Dubler's GRD at the Bergrennen Bad Mühllacken in 1975 and 1976. Many years later, this car was fully restored with Marc Widmer (Eiken, Switzerland) in 2014.
20. Motul M1 [203] (Tim Schenken): The car raced by Tim Schenken for Motul Rondel in F2 in 1973, and believed to be the same car all season. Then sold via Fred Opert to Stutz Plaisted Racing, and raced for the team by Peter Symonds (Salem, MA). Symonds car in SCCA Formula B during 1974 was entered as a Cheetah, but when he appeared for the SCCA Formula B race that supported the US GP at Watkins Glen in October 1974, his car was given as a Rondel M1. The car was apparently owned by Plaisted's father, John Floyd Plaisted, and it was still in his possession when he died in February 1979. Many of his cars were sold at auction in December 1979, and the Rondel was bought by Bob Connearney (Andover, MA) and retained by him. It still has the Ford twin cam engine it would have used in Formula B in 1974. Robert Connearney passed away in June 2020, and his collection of cars was offered for sale by Clarke Taylor at Historic Motor Sports (Candia, NH). The unrestored and heavily corroded Rondel was on display at a a VSCCA event at Lime Rock in July 2020, still in its Stutz Plaisted Racing livery, and still wearing its original 203 chassis plate.
21. Surtees TS15 [09] (Derek Bell): A brand new car prepared for Mike Hailwood to drive at Thruxton in April 1973, the third round of the 1973 F2 series, but after Hailwood was disqualified from the heart, the new car was driven by teammate Jochen Mass in the final. Then driven by Derek Bell at the Nürburgring as Hailwood was at the Spanish Grand Prix. Driven by Willy Braillard as a works entry at Nivelles-Baulers, then for Bell at Hockenheim, then for José Dolhem at Rouen where he crashed in practice and did not start, and then for Bell again at Monza a week later. Hailwood then drove this car at Enna in August, then Dolhem at Albi, and it was presumably the unused spare at Vallelunga. This car was not seen again, so it could be one of the cars that went to Japan, or the car that was destroyed over the winter in a transporter fire.
22. Motul M1 [205] (Jean-Pierre Jaussaud): The car raced by Jean-Pierre Jaussaud for Motul Rondel in F2 in 1973, and believed to be the same car all season. Also raced by Tim Schenken at Karlskoga in August. Subsequent history unknown, but the car later raced by Iain McLaren was described as "ex-Jaussaud".
23. Brabham BT40 [14] (John Wingfield): New to John Wingfield and raced in both F2 and Formula Atlantic in 1973, entered by Marshall Wingfield Limited. Raced by Ray Mallock in Formula Atlantic 1974, entered by The Chequered Flag, and retained for one early-season race in 1975, after Mallock wrecked his new March 742 at Thruxton. Then entered by Marshall Wingfield Ltd for South African Len Booysen to drive in a few Formula Atlantic races in June and July 1975, by which time it had acquired what looked like a March 73B nose, before Wingfield himself raced it once more at Silverstone in August. Subsequent history unknown.
24. GRD 273 (Claude Bourgoignie): Claude Bourgoignie bought a new GRD 272 for 1972, first appearing at Crystal Palace at the end of May, where he did not qualify. He used 1.8-litre Don Moore Ford engines. The car was identified by the F1 Register as chassis 010 in one place and as 018 in another, but neither is thought to be correct. It may have been chassis 028-F2. He continued with the car in 1973 with a new full 2-litre Broadspeed BDA and won all seven rounds of the Belgian Hill Climb Championship as well as appearing in a handful of F2 races. It was advertised by Bourgoignie (Brussels, Belgium) in November 1973 as a 273, with its Broadspeed and Moore engines. Bourgoignie returned to F2 in 1974 with a new GRD 274. The subsequent history of his 272 is unknown.
25. Motul M1 [207] (Bob Wollek): The car raced by Bob Wolleck for Motul Rondel in F2 in 1973, and believed to be the same car all season. Like most of the team's cars, this went to Fred Opert for 1974 to be converted for use in SCCA Formula B and Canadian Formula Atlantic. Assuming Wolleck used the same car all season, this would then be "ex-Wolleck" car that Seb Barone (Portland, CT/Middletown, CT/Dilliner, PA) remembers buying for 1974. After a season in the Canadian Formula Atlantic series, Barone traded it back to Opert for his 1975 Chevron B29. According to Cy Morland, who owned chassis 207 from 1998 to 2008, the car was owned after Barone by John Stowe in New England for an extended period, so would be the Rondel raced by Stowe in New England Region SCCA Regionals in 1976. Morland had the tub completely rebuilt by Marc Bahner, and then sold the car back to England. Subsequent history unknown.
26. Brabham BT36 [4] (Roland Binder): New to Rolf Stommelen as part of the Eifelland Wohnwagenbau (Caravaning) team for F2 in 1971. To Roland Binder (Esslingen, Germany) in F2 and hillclimbs in 1973. Later to Wittwer Racing, when the car had been modified with strange March bodywork, and sold to Ruedi Jauslin, then to dealer Fridolin Hämmerli. Then sold to Hansmarkus Huber who bought new Brabham bodywork from Peter Denty Racing; then sold to Albert Eggs, and sold by him to 'someone from Zurich'. Subsequent history unknown. A car with this number seen in 2003 with Sid Hoole and then in 2005 with Joseph (Sepp) Meyer.
27. Elf 2 (Alpine) A367 [3670] (Patrick Depailler): Entered as an "ELF 2", but built by Alpine and designated the A367. Chassis 3670 was built for the 1972 F2 season, when it was raced by Patrick Depailler and Jean-Pierre Jabouille. This is apparently the same car that was updated for 1973 and became Depailler's regular car that season. Substantially redesigned by Andre de Cortanze for 1974, and fitted with a Schnitzer BMW as a fourth team car for Alain Serpaggi and others to race. According to reports, this car started to be converted to 1975 specification, but was unfinished. In 1999, this car was reported to be owned by Thierry Gay (Lyons), and Gerard Gamand reported on Autodiva that the car had been reconstructed using a new chassis fabricated by Gilles and Vincent Duqueine. In 2015, Fred Marquet's HTT Motorsport was restoring this car to its 1974 Serpaggi specification. It was first seen at Albi in June 2016.
28. Elf 2 (Alpine) A367 [3671] (François Cevert): New for 1973, for team leader Jean-Pierre Jabouille to drive in F2 for the Elf Coombs Racing team. The car was fitted with a Cosworth BDG for its first two races, but was then changed to a Hart alloy-blocked BDA. Also driven by François Cevert, at Pau as his own new car was not yet ready, and won the race, Alpine's first F2 win. Only seen a couple more times that season. Retained for 1974, fitted with a Schnitzer BMW engine and assigned to Patrick Tambay for that season, but driven once by Alain Cudini in Tambay's absence. Tambay won at Nogaro in September in this car. Two effectively new cars were built for 1975 consuming two of A367s, this car becoming chassis 7501.
29. Chevron B25 [25-73-09] (Gerry Birrell): New for Gerry Birrell as the second Chevron Racing entry at Hockenheim in April 1973. The car had previously done a day's testing at Mallory Park. Raced by Birrell at Hockenheim and Thruxton, where he was punted off by a March 732 while leading. He then crashed in practice at the Nürburgring when he skated off on an unexpected damp section of track. Autosport said that the car was "extensively damaged", but Motoring News quoted Derek Bennett saying damage to the tub was minor, but could not be repaired on the spot. Nonetheless, Birrell raced Gethin's car at Pau a week later. After missing the next few races, he returned for Rouen at the end of June. During Saturday practice, a tyre deflated as he approached Six Freres, a 155 mpg downhill corner, and the Chevron flew into the Armco barrier, hitting it full on. The two layers of Armco parted, as happened numerous times in 1973, and Birrell suffered critical head injuries. Despite attempts to resuscitate him, he died at the scene. The car was not badly damaged, but given Derek Bennett's sensitivity to Birrell's loss, the first ever in a Chevron, it is likely that the remains were scrapped.

Sources

Note that the identification of individual cars in these results is based on the material presented elsewhere in this site and may in some cases contradict the organisers' published results.

All comments, clarifications, corrections and additions are most welcome. Please email Allen (allen@oldracingcars.com) if you can help in any way with our research.