Surtees TS8

Mike Hailwood's works Surtees TS8 at Mondello Park in 1971. Copyright John Motson 2004. Used with permission.After the success of the TS5, Surtees seem to have been in two minds for 1971. The TS5 design continued, now in TS5B form, presumably to use up left-over tubs, and a new FA/F5000 TS8 design was produced, based very closely on the 1970 F1 TS7 design. Built on the same jigs as the TS7, it had the same suspension, wheels and brakes but used a Hewland DG300 gearbox and the wheelbase was 3 in longer due to the longer bellhousing. Like the Cosworth DFV, the Chevy V8 was fully stressed but the mounting of the rear radius rods were repositioned on the rear bulkhead.

The TS8 started poorly, with Mike Eyerley in the prototype well behind the McLaren M10Bs during the 1971 Tasman, but did better in Europe, with Hailwood taking two wins and three poles from his first four races. Two more wins followed but then Frank Gardner got his works Lola T300 and, with Hailwood suffering endless engine trouble, the Lola dominated the last six races. Only one other TS8 was sold in the UK.

In the US, Sam Posey won at Mid-Ohio and took two further second places but he couldn't match the Hogan McLaren M10B of David Hobbs. Both Posey and Hobbs finished second in their respective championships but TS8 sales were very limited.

The TS8 histories are very muddled as Posey and Hailwood may have had two cars each and it's hard to figure out which car went where. All and any help would be gratefully received. Please e-mail Allen at allen@oldracingcars.com if you can add anything.

Thanks to John Bladon, Marcus Pye, David McLaughlin, Wolfgang Klopfer, Al Moore, Chris Townsend, Peter Stowe, Phil Palm, Ron Pohl, Alan Cox and John Monson for their contributions to these histories. The story of Alan Richards' TS8 came from an Autosport profile written by none other that Mr Pye (31 Aug 1978 p32). The history of Mike Whatley's TS8/'014' came from the car's FIA papers.

Car History Current
owner
Surtees TS8
01		 Built for 1971 season. Announced late October 1970. Bonphil Racing for Mike Eyerley Tasman 1971 (where David McKinney observed the chassis number to be '001'). Crashed badly in practice at Warwick Farm and said by Motoring News to be "written off". Returned to the factory for repairs. The rest of the team returned to the US but had hit financial problems and everything was siezed as they came through customs. The equipment, including two Bartz engines but less the missing monocoque, was sold to Phil Palm and Ron Pohl. Although the tub may have been repaired, TS8/01 cannot be considered to exist after the Warwick Farm crash. Crashed and not rebuilt
Surtees TS8
02		 Built for 1971 season. Possibly a Posey or Hailwood spare car. Subsequent history unknown. David McKinney observed the "TS8-2" chassis number on Hailwood's 1972 Tasman TS9/TS8. If this was the Hailwood spare then it may have gone to Herve Bayard as a spare for 1972 and then may be the Ecurie Bonnier car in 1973. Unknown
Surtees TS8
03		 Built for 1971 season. Maybe the Team Corsair/Ron Grable car or possibly a Posey or Hailwood spare car. Subsequent history unknown. Unknown
Surtees TS8
04		 Built for 1971 season. Willie Ferguson (SA) 1971; driven by Paddy Driver (SA) opening races of 1972; back to Ferguson for Kyalami 3 Jun 1972 but crashed in practice when the engine blew and DNS. The car was not badly damaged and Driver spent the rest of 1972, on and off, trying to fit a Ford V8 but didn't finish it. To the best of his memory, he sold it to Alex Blignaut who had sold his two TS5s. Raced by Nols Neiman (SA) 1973 until his F1 TS9B arrived - Fred Cowell (SA) Sep 1973 - Mike Hearn (SA) 1974 (only appeared at Goldfields 19 Oct 1974) - Dave Hart (SA) 1975. Advertised by Hart (Melville, Johannesburg) Sep 1975 and sold mid-1976 to Willie Hepburn who used some parts on a modified Escort and cut the tub in half to get the bag tanks out. It would appear that there is nothing left of this car. Broken up
Surtees TS8
05
 Mike Hailwood's works Surtees TS8 at Mondello Park in 1971. Copyright John Motson 2004. Used with permission.Built for 1971 season. Team Surtees (UK) 1971: raced by Mike Hailwood (won on debut; F1 Register also identify this as Hailwood's 1972 Tasman car - Herve Bayard (UK) 1972 with works spare car: raced in early UK F5000 races only; used in European Hill Climb Championship and converted one car to Cosworth DFV engine after opening round (finished second overall in championship). Bayard Robin Darlington's TS8 at Silverstone in July 1998. Copyright Jeremy Jackson 2003. Used with permission.practiced 05 with a DFV at the Rothmans £50,000 on 28 August 1972 but was far too slow to qualify. Subsequent history unknown but possibly either the Chris Shaw car or the Robin Darlington car in 1973. May have been owned by Alex Seldon at some point. Next seen when acquired by John Foulston in 1989. After Foulston's death, the TS8 passed to Noel Butler 1998. Appeared at Silverstone July 1998. Bought at auction by Robin Darlington 1999. To Mike Wrigley 2002 and then sold to Dr John Monson (Hull, UK) in 2004. To Stephen Gibson Mar 2007. Stephen Gibson (UK) 2007
Surtees TS8
06

A picture taken of TS8/06 at Chuck Haines'. The car can be seen here still in Dick Ferguson's livery.One of two cars owned by Champ Carr (Capistrano, CA). These cars were run for Sam Posey US 1971 and Rocky Moran US 1972. One wrecked in practice at R4 Elkhart Lake 16 Jul 1972; a second only seen at R5 Brainerd 29 Jul 1972. A TS8 was advertised by Champ Carr Autoweek 21 Oct 1972. Two "ex-Posey" TS8s appeared in the US in 1973: as TS8/008 was driven by Phil Palm, presumably TS8/06 was the Guneau car (1973 to 1975) ... A subsequent image taken of TS8/06 at Chuck Haines'. Here the earlier McCormack/Moran livery is visible after the TS11 sidepods have been removed.Dick Ferguson (US) 1976: retired at Elkhart Lake 29 Aug 1976, crashed in Heat 2 at Riverside 17 Oct 1976 ... subsequently "TS8/06" with Chuck Haines (Can-Am Cars) for sale as "project" Mar 1990 with TS5 and TS11 tubs. The TS8 had been was stripped and the tub used in the rebuild of a TS7 leaving the rest of the car as "a project". The project was bought by John Bladon in England from Chuck Haines some time around early 2001. John found it consisted of:

'virtually a full car less engine and chassis. The rear end was completely assembled including original rear transaxle chassis crossmember,rear axles drive shafts, brakes and wheels, 2 front corners fully assembled including steering rack tank cover with the chassis and SCCA tags attached. '

John, in a masterly piece of understatement, says "all I have to do is bolt it all to an ex factory chassis and fit an engine and we'll be off"! To Tim Slack (Mowsley, Leicestershire) early 2006. The car is now said to be nearly ready which suggests a tub has been sourced from somewhere.

Tim Slack (UK) 2006
Surtees TS8
07		 Alan Brodie's Surtees TS8 at Mallory Park in 1972. Copyright Stuart Dent 2004. Used with permission.Built for 1971 season. Peter Revson's car at the Questor GP. Was intended to be Surtees works car in the US but later returned to UK. Alan Rollinson (UK) 1971 from R9 (Mallory Park 4 Jul 1971) - Alan Brodie (UK) 1972: raced by Brodie and Steve Thompson; Thompson won libre at Mallory Park Boxing Day 1972. Servis Appliances Racing Team (UK) 1973: raced by Ray Allan. Not seen after International Trophy 8 Apr 1973 ... possibly the Robin Darlington car in Sep 1973 .. Colin AndrewsAlan Richards in the Cheltenham Cameras Surtees TS8 at Loton Park in April 1976. Copyright Alan Cox 2006. Used with permission. (Banbury): UK 1974 (at R3, R7, R11 only, crashed at R11 Mallory Park) ... hill-climbed by Stephen Cuff (Frome, UK) in 1975 (7th at Pontypool Park 13 Jul 1975 and 8th at Shelsley Walsh 17 Aug 1975) - Alan Richards (Cheltenham, UK) end of 1975: used in sprints and occasional hill climbs (in Cheltenham Cameras colours) in 1976 and 1977 - Bob Clapham for sprints and occasional hill climbs: British Sprint Championship 1978 (4th at RAC Curborough 30 Apr; 6th at Wellesbourne 5 Aug and 9th at Weston 7 Oct; also driven by Richards to 4th at Brighton 9 Sep and 4th at Weston 7 Oct); British Sprint Championship 1979Revised nose for Alan Richards' Surtees TS8 in 1977. Copyright Alan Cox 2006. Used with permission. (9th at Curborough 29 Apr; 5th at St Eval 8 Jul); British Sprint Championship 1980 (3rd at Weston 4 Oct) ... Subsequent history unknown until bought from Brian Redman by Dave Swigler (Florida) in 1986. Dave believes Brian got it from Richard Attwood about two years earlier. Retained by Dave Swigler July 2003. Dave Swigler (US) 2003
Surtees TS8
08		 One of two cars owned by Champ Carr (Capistrano, CA). These cars were run for Sam Posey US 1971 and Rocky Moran US 1972. One wrecked in practice at R4 Elkhart Lake 16 Jul 1972; a second only seen at R5 Brainerd 29 Jul 1972. A TS8 was advertised by Champ Carr Autoweek 21 Oct 1972. Two "ex-Posey" TS8s appeared in the US in 1973: Phil Palm's TS8/08 and Len Guneau's - presumably TS8/06. TS8/08 then to Phil Palm (Anaheim, CA) for 1973 US season. As well as the Bonphil Racing engines and spares, Phil Palm and Ron Pohl also bought a Surtees TS8 chassis from Fred Carrillo of Champ Carr - "the crashed Posey chassis". Palm was Carillo's cousin. They spent several months rebuilding it and entered for R1 Riverside at the start of the 1973 season but did not practice or start for reasons that Ron cannot recall. Palm drove the car in a regional race at Riverside but had brake problems. Sold to Stuart Forbes-Robinson US 1974: at Ontario 2 Sep 1974 (nptr, DNS), Laguna Seca (not seen in practice; dna?) and Riverside (qual 39th, retired in Heat 1). Palm's invoice to SFR bears the number "TS8/008". Subsequent history unknown but see the Moore car. Unknown
Surtees TS8
'014' 		Rick Hall's Surtees TS8 '014' at Donington Park in July 1990. Copyright Jeremy Jackson 2003. Used with permission."Surtees works spare 1971-73 - Nick Overall 1973 for libre racing and crashed at Brands Hatch - Jim West 1976 for sprints and hill climbs - Ian Higgins 1986 - Rick Hall 1989" - Mike Whatley about 1992: retained 2001. Raced in FORCE Historic F5000 series (UK) 2001. Chassis plate appears to have been altered at some time in the past - might have originally said "01" or "04".Mike Whatley's Surtees TS8 '014' at Mallory Park in May 1994. Copyright Jeremy Jackson 2003. Used with permission. Mike Whatley (UK)

The mystery cars

It is proving hard to decypher all the TS8s. The 1971 Clive Baker car is a puzzle and, in 1972, Moran presumably drove both TS8/06 and TS8/08 but it is not known which way round they were. The John Campbell car in the UK may turn out to be 'TS8/014'.

Car History Current
owner
Surtees TS8
'the Baker car'		 New for Clive Baker June 1971. Team Corsair (San Antonio, TX) for Baker US 1971 (from Edmonton 1 Aug 1971); US 1972. Not seen after R2 Edmonton 4 Jun 1972 (only on entry list at R3 Watkins Glen 18 Jun 1972). The team weren't seen after Grable's TS11 crashed at R2 and went bust at some point during the year. Both cars to Gus Hutchison and entered by Hutchison's HRE (Dallas, TX) for Syd Demovsky (Chicago, IL) US 1973. Ran a full season, with a best finish of ninth in the final race. Advertised by Hutchison (Dallas, TX) in Autoweek 22 Sep 1973 and later 7 Dec 1974: "ready to race". Also in the advert was a TS11 which was said to have a new tub and a further new spare tub. Subsequent history unknown but see the Moore car below. Unknown
Surtees TS8
'the Guneau car'		 Len Guneau (Hermosa Beach, CA) US 1973. Qual 38th at R1 Riverside and finished 12th in Heat 2. Later qualified for final at R9 Seattle but retired. Not seen in the 'Pro' series in 1974 but finished 3rd in a SCCA National at Riverside on 27 May 1974. Also claimed to be ex-Posey so, as Palm's car was TS8/08, this is likely to have been TS8/06. Advertised by Cheryl Guneau (Hermosa Beach, CA) Autoweek 25 Oct 1975. Subsequent history unknown but see TS8/006 above. Unknown
Surtees TS8B
'the Campbell car'		 John Campbell UK 1973: Motoring News describes this as a brand new car when it first appears in a libre race at Silverstone in March 1973: 'Having his first outing in a brand new Surtees TS8B with Bartz Chevy installed... was John Campbell...'. Won a libre race at Oulton Park 24 Mar. A TS8B is advertised in August described as "'immaculate, two club races and two practice sessions from new, Bartz engine." The two club races would be the two libre races, and the two practices the F5000 races where it fails to qualify. And it was described as having a new Bartz at one of those races. The car is readvertised in November 1973. It would appear that the only way Campbell could have got a TS8B new at the start of 1973 was to buy the one advertised by Surtees themselves in December 1972 (see item 3 in the Notes below). Sold to Nick Overall for 1974 (4th in in "ex-John Campbell TS8" at Jaybrand Racewear Libre Championship round at Silverstone 16 Mar 1974) so could this be the 'TS8/014' listed above? Subsequent history unknown. Unknown
Surtees TS8 or TS8B
'the Shaw car'

Alan Shaw (from Monmouth) entered a TS8 in the Libre race at Castle Combe 31 Mar 1973. At the very end of the 1974 season, Alan Shaw set fastest lap in a libre race at Llandow in a Surtees TS8B but did not feature in the race. Finally, at the very end of the 1975 season, Alan Shaw finished fifth in a libre race at Llandow in a Surtees TS8.

Unknown
Surtees TS8
'the Bonnier car'		 Entered by Ecurie Bonnier for Rolf Tellsten at Mallory Park 28 May 1973 but did not arrive. Advertised by Ecurie Bonnier Feb 1974. Unknown
Surtees TS8
'the Smith car'		 "A Smith" was second at the Weelesbourne (Stratford-upon-Avon) RAC sprint on 7 May 1977 . This is likely to have been TS8/07 or TS8/'014', both of which were sprinting at that time. Unknown
Surtees TS8
'the Amick car'		 K. R. Amick (Spring Valley, CA). Advertised in Autoweek 23 Apr 1977: "spares include tubs". Unknown
Surtees TS8
'the Mahar car'		 Dale Mahar (Can-Am) 1977: no time recorded at Sears Point 25 Sep 1977. Unknown
Surtees TS8
'the Jacobi car'		 Dr Reinhard Jacobi (Germany) raced a Surtees TS8 in historics in 1990-91. Unknown
Surtees TS8
'the Moore car'		 Al Moore's Surtees TS8 in US vintage racing. Copyright Al Moore 2002. Used with permission.Al Moore (US) 2002: believed to be ex-Posey. Bought from Mike Cherry (Vacaville, CA) who had planned to convert it to Can-Am. Came with an original #34 Posey nose but also with a TS11 tub and #88 (Grable) sidepods. Given that Hutchison had a spare TS11 tub in 1973 and also had the ex-Grable TS11, Moore's car may be the ex-Baker/Team Corsair car. Al Moore (US) 2002

Other notes and adverts

  1. In March 1971, Wilson Southam (Montreal, Quebec) advertised a Surtees TS8 (F.O.B. London). At that time, a TS8 would have been brand new and presumably unraced.

  2. In September 1972, Jim Woltersdorf (Austin, Texas) advertised a Surtees "TS8B", a designation rarely seen elsewhere. The car was said to be complete and race ready. Maybe this was a TS5B. Austin is less that 100 miles north of San Antonio, home of Corsair Racing, and less than 300 miles south of Dallas, home of HRE.

  3. December '72 Team Surtees themselves advertise a TS8B "new car, unused". Is this the Campbell car?

  4. Robin Darlington entered a TS8A in a Libre race at Llandow 23 Sep 1973.

  5. A Surtees TS8 was advertised by Automotive Development (Orange, CA) in March 1974.

  6. A Surtees TS8 ("not used since rebuild", "Bartz") was advertised from Cranleigh and Slinfold telephone numbers in August and September 1974.

  7. Michael Connor had a Surtees F5000 entered for a libre race at Silverstone on Easter Monday (31 Mar) 1975. The car is not mentioned in Autosport's report. As all the surviving TS5s and TS5As seem to have gone to the US or to South Africa, it is presumed that this car was a TS8.

  8. A "F5000 Surtees" advertised from Cirencester, May 1975.

  9. A TS8 is advertised from an 0600 phone number in the UK in July 1976.

  10. A "F5000 Surtees TS8B crash damaged l/h suspension and adaptor, otherwise complete" was advertised by "Jim" from a London number in May 1984.

  11. John Surtees is known to have had a several F5000 cars as recently as 1990.

  12. Chris Alford (Sussex, UK) advertised a TS8 3 Dec 1992. In June 2003, Chris told John Bladon that this had been Rick's Hall's '014', on its way to Mike Whatley.

  13. James Hale (Lebanon, New Hampshire) had a TS8 and an extra tub in May 2004.

Sources include Race Report 5 (Eddie Guba 1972), the F1 Register's F5000 books, Autoweek's classified columns and Autosport's 1971 season review (6 Jan 1972 pp7-13) for details on TS8/07.

These histories last updated on 1 April, 2007 .